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Post by WxCougar on Jan 4, 2013 20:15:37 GMT -6
We'll all likely find various ways to help out the guild, be it time, efforts, or straight up donation or of course all of the above. It's been really interesting to read the discussions here and elsewhere on what people think and the various speculations. Time will definitely help as we all hear more about how the game will actually work and that will help some decisions. I'm sure everything is going to be somewhat fluid until we hit what works for us.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 4, 2013 20:48:32 GMT -6
Time will definitely help as we all hear more about how the game will actually work and that will help some decisions. I'm sure everything is going to be somewhat fluid until we hit what works for us. This, exactly this. =]
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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 5, 2013 7:45:42 GMT -6
My fear is that we will get a taker, you know that person who joins the guild and says, "Oh free resources so that I can go and craft my item X and then sell it and get all the profit. Yeah me." If there is no barrier for entry, no minimum level of participation or taxation then you will have people join who will simply take. I think of it like my Gym memberships, I have a gym in my home I never use it, I pay for a monthly membership I'm there at least once a week.
Its great if you choose to not donate as much as Valandur but you should have to donate a minimum amount so that you get the benefit of being a member.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 5, 2013 15:16:13 GMT -6
That's part of the reason discussion on Initiates has been developing. I'm starting a thread for just that discussion, but the idea is to put in a relatively low barrier for entry - enough to dissuade most of that behavior, but not enough so as to make membership unattractive.
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Post by Erian El'ranelen on Jan 8, 2013 15:44:27 GMT -6
I also favor starting low, or at 0, and assessing the actual costs before levying taxes. Being a person that actually relies on donations for projects, I appreciate both the psychological and monetary effects that approach can have on members. On the other hand, as someone that handles planning and logistics of a large organization, having a minimum revenue level that supports actual costs is important in giving stability to the overall system. Keeping these at a balanced budget (perhaps with a slight revenue advantage that goes into savings) can also lead to a more transparent* financial system that gives members confidence in the org. The banking approach can go a long way toward supporting both income generation (from interest earned) as well as an emergency reserve in times of great need.
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 8, 2013 23:09:58 GMT -6
Very well said, Erian. You covered both bases (those of us who rely on donations as well as the Guild in general). I know most of the management of the rings usually falls upon the Guardians and any inter-ring projects will probably involve income from the Ring banks of whoever is involved. As far as a general Guild bank is concerned, though, it's always a good idea to keep in mind a minimum amount of income, which I think you very handily addressed.
The actually taxation levels, if any, still remain up in the air. I'd like to see what we're looking at before we make any concrete decisions, but all of this discussion is a very VERY positive step forward.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 9, 2013 9:27:56 GMT -6
I'm very, very glad there's been a lot of discussion and most of it is trending towards "Start low/zero and increase if necessary." I'm also feeling very lucky we've got ourselves a bona fide money-handler in the group who can blow up our misconceptions and lend some good experience. I've got some book learning, but that's about it.
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Post by Bristol Glory on Jan 9, 2013 10:34:13 GMT -6
I'm very, very glad there's been a lot of discussion and most of it is trending towards "Start low/zero and increase if necessary." I'm also feeling very lucky we've got ourselves a bona fide money-handler in the group who can blow up our misconceptions and lend some good experience. I've got some book learning, but that's about it. That's what I've taken from the discussion so far, as well. I'd like to imagine the game systems won't be structured in such a way that we have to tax in order to maintain/grow, though it should be understood that its a distinct possibility. I don't view taxes in-game the same way as those in real life. They're much easier to avoid, since you can simply say 'no' to whatever group is imposing them. I would see a small tax for the purposes of maintaining and growing the Circle's interests a voluntary action, handled automatically through game mechanics. If a member isn't interested in contributing, they don't have to join. Obviously this should be kept as low as possible, and if we can manage to meet our goals without a tax (looking at the road-building offers from larger groups like the Empyrean Order), we should go that route. The lack of a tax is likely to be covered by our more generous, active members by way of donation, and in my experience, directly lending assistance to another member is never lacking, so we won't necessarily need coffers full of money or equipment for guildmembers since people always exist to fill that gap. (Not that having those things would be bad!)
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 10, 2013 18:14:29 GMT -6
Also well said, Bristol. I know you have a degree of experience with MMOs, so it's good to see another MMO veteran piping in for some feedback. I know we can always rely on generous members and hopefully those are the kind of people we're getting into this Guild.
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Post by mmowarrior on Jan 13, 2013 18:19:40 GMT -6
The problem with voluntary means of revenue is that an imbalance occurs. Sooner or later it'll be noticed that A, B, C are very often involved and giving/raising coin while X, Y, Z very rarely or never does.. Resentments soon follow.. A part of voting for officers is saying you trust them to act with best in mind for the Guild, this includes using finances appropriately.. I think a small percentage is the way to go..
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Post by Drake on Jan 13, 2013 21:24:30 GMT -6
There are definatly alternitives to strait up taxations. For starters, we can have a share of all "profits" from verious Circle sponsored events and operations go to the Circle coffers.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 14, 2013 10:24:31 GMT -6
Drake: Yup, that's something we discussed above. For clarity, the revenue options we've discussed and are considering are: Taxation Donations Fund-Raising Events (50% commission from any funds generated if it's a dungeon or resource grab or whatever - specifically called out for this purpose) Guild Shops (Sell to the guild for fair price, guild shop sells the items at market value, profits go to the guild bank) Lottery (players pay X coin to purchase a lottery item, half of all the money paid goes to the guild, the other half to the winner) Gambling (Bet on races, tournaments, etc, commission to the guild) Property Leasing (Allow non-guild members to lease property in our settlements) Any other suggestions/thoughts?
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Post by nimitztreecat on Jan 16, 2013 17:28:14 GMT -6
As I was reading this and the discussion turned to cooking and NPC needing items that our cooks make a thought popped into my head. I think it would be fun if goblinworks went really deep with NPC. Here is an example once in a while a gold standard NPC will pop into the game that is much better than the rest. For this I am going to say a overseer who has special traits, lets say Bornleader(can overseer 30 workers instead of 25) and efficient(5%less materials needed for crafting). Now to get him a settlement might need certain items/buildings. Lets say he is a Foodie(must have special food items to attract him) and he is a collector of fine kobalt weapons(so we need a kobalt weapon smith. The game assigns him to the first town who meets all his requirements or if more than one the some method is determined where he goes.
Now I know this is a bit off topic, but where I am going with this is it would be nice if we had people who where good at predicting where future games changes will go and be ready for it when the new item goes live. I.E. we know a new batch of armor recipies will be entering on the next patch. Now from past armor recipes we know that we need a 3x3 tanning shed that needs 5 workers and 300 wood 200 stones. But this person from reading between the lines figured that will need a different metal smelter and plans for its construction, because some of the items are rare in our region. So when it goes live we have everything ready to go for immediate construction.
Now you might be asking why go through all this work, well from my experience maximum profit for an item in mmo is normally right when it comes out. Now it we build a reputation of being the first to have new items then people will come to our settlement to get these items on patch day and while waiting for us to pop the first items out will hopefully b spending money in our other shops.
I know I am playing the long game here but I think if done right this game could have a meta game than can rival EVE online.
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Post by nimitztreecat on Jan 16, 2013 17:30:06 GMT -6
Oh and I am not that person... Was not applying for the job.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 16, 2013 17:42:04 GMT -6
Nimitz, this is a great idea. I just quoted you and made it a new thread cause its not quite a Taxation question.
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