|
Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 19, 2013 11:23:52 GMT -6
So, I'm looking to crowdsource a little knowledge.
Let's assume for a moment I want to play a Menhir Savant (Ley Lines! Spirits! Fey!) who is a strong caster with some ties to nature but has absolutely zero desire to shape shift ever. I'd go with a nature themed wizard or Cleric, but there's a ton of spells off the Druid list that fit the theme better. Essentially, the character is focused on out-of-combat utility - crop growing, healing, construction of defenses, calming (and awakening) of animals, etc. He's not going to be one-shot in combat, but neither is he spending all of his time buffing/debuffing/casting spells in combat. He's a background character, a sage and a keeper of wisdom for the party with a strong focus on nature.
What the hell do I replace wild shape with to keep this balanced?
|
|
|
Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 19, 2013 11:36:52 GMT -6
I'm confused. Balanced in what way? Not using wildshape isn't going to gimp a druid. My last pathfinder game ran 3rd-19th levels, and the druid wildshaped once.
|
|
|
Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 19, 2013 11:40:18 GMT -6
I guess that's a solution too, to just not use it. I was looking for some sort of mechanic to replace it for the sake of character - why would he bother to learn to wild shape (and get better at it) if he never uses it?
|
|
|
Post by chaiguy on Jan 19, 2013 11:41:53 GMT -6
In the table top version of Pathfinder I would suggest looking over Druid Archtypes that swap wild shape out for something more to your liking. I'm not sure if archtypes will be needed in the MMO since it's skill based. I guess you would just ignore wild shape skill and focus on the spell casting abilities, that's just a guess though.
|
|
|
Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 19, 2013 11:44:37 GMT -6
Oh, for clarity, this is purely for TT. None of the archetypes that I saw replace Wild Shape.
|
|
|
Post by chaiguy on Jan 19, 2013 11:50:00 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by WxCougar on Jan 19, 2013 11:53:26 GMT -6
The only Druid archetype that completely replaced Wild shape was the Human Feral Child Archetype. They replace it with more trap sense/trap spotter like abilities. That is from the Advanced Race Guide book. There are several that change wild shape in various ways (starting later and is weaker for example). Edit: Beaten to the punch there
|
|
|
Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 19, 2013 12:02:29 GMT -6
Feral Druid actually seems very interesting. I guess, to be even more specific, I'm going to try to create an ability tied to ley lines/involving ritual magic to replace Wild Shape. Our DM (Augustine) is very, very open to homebrew and has several homebrew classes pre-made for our campaign. As long as he reviews the class and it's not broken, I'm usually okay.
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Jan 20, 2013 3:27:17 GMT -6
If your DM is that open to Homebrew classes you could try working out your own Archetype that replaces the Wildshape.
|
|
clannagh
Junior Member
Human Cleric of Gorum
Posts: 60
|
Post by clannagh on Jan 20, 2013 16:20:53 GMT -6
Wildshape in early 3.5 was actually overpowered (and that is without nonsense like Planar Shepherd) but rule amendments to the stat changes when wildshaped (that I believe carried through to pathfinder) toned it down and make it less of an "essential" ability. Two points: 1) The original point of wildshape, before it became a means of building combat monsters, was to do funky stuff like become a bird, water creature or small animal for spying or to escape from a situation. Perhaps retain it for its "roleplay" and tactical benefits and ignore the combat uses. 2) Consider becoming a Mystic Theurge (but use druid rather than traditional cleric for the divine side, maybe sorcerer/druid) providing its allowed by your DM. This will give close to full caster level spells off both the arcane and druid list. For example, I believe that a level 20 mystic theurge would be caster level 16 (sorcerer) or 17(wizard) for arcane spells and caster level 17 for druid spells. Check my math on that. Downside is you do not advance in wildshape/animal companion. www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/mysticTheurge.htmRequirements
To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill all the following criteria:
Skills Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks.
Spells Able to cast 2nd-level divine spells and 2nd-level arcane spells.
Class Features When a new mystic theurge level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class he belonged to previously. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that he adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before he became a mystic theurge, he must decide to which class he adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
|
|
clannagh
Junior Member
Human Cleric of Gorum
Posts: 60
|
Post by clannagh on Jan 20, 2013 17:01:27 GMT -6
Footnote: For the most ridiculously overpowered druid (perhaps the most ridiculously overpowered character build of any type) ever read below: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871574/The_Planar_Shepherd_HandbookSome Keypoints: Your animal companion is an outsiderWild shape (elemental or outsider) You can now wild shape into any outsider or elemental from your native plane (within your HD, size, etc.). Here's the kicker, you retain ALL of their extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities.Plane shiftPlanar Bubble Effectively, you bring part of your "home plane" back with you. This can enhance some of your spells, abilities, etc. Remember, you are unaffected by its' negative traits (such as fire, etc.). OUTRAGEOUS ability!!!! This allows you to harvest the time traits of planes as well. Dal Quor will give you 10 rounds to play with for every one round on the Material Plane. Xoriat will allow a minute to be an hour...No sane DM would allow you to play Planar Shepherd.
|
|
|
Post by chaiguy on Jan 20, 2013 23:25:14 GMT -6
Here's something from Kirthfinder to think about. Take the ranger's favored terrain ability and this.
GREENBOND INITIATE The greenbond initiate simulates the Greenbond base class from Monte Cook’s Arcana Unearthed (Malhavoc Press).
Prerequisite: You must have chosen the Healing domain as your 1st level Nature’s Bond ability to select this initiation. Your initiate bonus spells are chosen from the list of Healing domain spells.
Bond with the Green (Su): In a four-hour ritual that you conducts in your favored terrain, you gain an intuitive sense of the condition of the land—a literal bond with the Green. This means that if an area of your favored terrain is harmed in any way (for instance, a forest fire, a famine, or a disease) within one mile per class level, you become aware of it and gains a general understanding of what is happening. If you succeed at a DC 25 Concentration check (1d20 + caster level + Wisdom modifier), you gain more details, such as distance and direction.
In order for an event to trigger the bond, it must affect an area at least 100 yards across or involving at least 25 creatures or large plants (such as trees). Natural, daily events, such as predators hunting, do not alert you. For example, if a bestial cyclops band is hacking down trees to burn in a huge pyre, a 7th level druid four miles away becomes alerted once they chop down about 25 trees. All the druid knows is that numerous trees are dying rapidly. If he or she succeeds at the concentration check, the appoximate distance and direction are revealed. The druid still does not know specifically that the cyclops band is the culprit.
Nature’s Gift (Su): Starting at 6th level, at will as a standard action you can draw on the power of nature and infuse it within yourself. You must be touching something solid and natural (the ground, a bit of unworked stone, a plant, an animal, or a beast) to activate this ability. You gain a divine bonus equal to half your class level that you can add to any d20 roll you make in the following round. Alternatively, you can impart this gift to an ally you touch during the following round (the ally must use the bonus in that round). You can even divide the bonus among up to five allies that you can reach during the round, giving each a portion of the bonus as you decide. Thus, a 10th level druid could grant a +2 bonus to two allies and a +1 bonus to another.
Speak With Nature Spirits (Su): Starting at 8th level, your bond allows you to speak with the spirit of a tree, a brook, the air, or any other part of nature that you touch. Once per day, you can ask a spirit a question that requires an answer of up to one word per class level or a series of yes/no questions (one per class level). Only natural things have spirits you can speak with—wood made into a door or water in a fountain usually has lost its spirit. The spirit is not omniscient. It knows all observable facts about its surroundings, and can answer any such question with 100 percent accuracy. For example, if you asked the spirit of a river if any people on horseback had crossed it in the last three days, it would be able to answer the question. A spirit's surroundings are never more than a 300-ft. radius, however—a river miles long has many spirits. A spirit has a 75 percent chance, plus 1 percent per class level you possess, to know the answer to a question about things farther afield, such as, “Is the dragon still over the next hill?” It never knows the answer to a question pertaining to the future or to the thoughts of another: “Can I defeat the dragon in battle?” or “Does the dragon know I'm here?”
To convince the spirit to give an answer, you must make a Diplomacy check. A failed check might result in no answer, or it might result in a lie (DM's discretion). The check's Difficulty Class depends on the type of spirit, per the following table:
Spirit Type Diplomacy DC Water 10 Wood 15 Air 18 Animal 20 Stone 30 Speak with Nature Spirits, Greater (Su): Starting at 10th level, you can talk freely with nature spirits, asking any number of questions with any types of answers. Also, spirits can talk with one another and relay answers back to you; the range of awareness is expanded to 300 ft. from any edge of a particular geographic feature (forest, plain, mountain range, river, swap, or ocean, for example).
Nature’s Gift, Greater (Su): Starting at 12th level, the divine bonus from your nature’s gift ability lasts 1 round per four class levels you possess (maximum 5 rounds at 20th level). Thus, an 18th level druid could grant a 4-round divine bonus of +9 to one ally (or herself), or +3 to three allies, or +5 to one ally and +1 to four others. Each round, those granted the gift can use the bonus on any one d20 roll of their choosing.
Plant Bond (Ex): At 14th level, the greenbond undergoes a three-day solitary trek into the wilderness, eating and drinking nothing other than special herbs and water. This experience increases your bond with the Green so that plants surrounding you infuse into your body. From that point on, you are no longer considered a humanoid (or whatever type you are), but a plant. Anything that specifically does not harm plants will not harm you (including most mind-affecting spells and effects).
Numinous Hierophant (Su): At 20th level, the fusion with plants that occurred at 14th level becomes so complete that your anatomy changes to resemble a plant’s. Your skin takes on a greenish sheen, and you become immune to sneak attacks and critical hits. You can take the shape of a tree as a standard action, if standing on solid ground where a tree could potentially grow. There is no way to determine that the tree is actually other than what it seems—even magic does not reveal you to be anything but the tree you appear to be. While a tree, you cannot move or take actions other than to cast spells or use abilities that affect only you. For example, you could cast barkskin on yourself while you were a tree or use infuse with life upon yourself. None of this requires movement of any kind on your part.
You must root himself in natural earth and take on the form of a tree for eight hours each day rather than sleeping. During this time, you remain completely aware of your surroundings and can change back as a move action. The eight hours need not be consecutive. Due to this transformation, you need only sunlight, water, and the touch of the earth to sustain you. You no longer require sleep, air, or food.
|
|
|
Post by chaiguy on Jan 22, 2013 11:20:40 GMT -6
I'm curious as to how this character will turn out. Please let us know what the final arangement is like Hrod.
|
|
|
Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 22, 2013 11:31:47 GMT -6
I most certainly will! I'm in the (slow, off and on) process of building the class and deciding what race he'll be.
|
|
|
Post by Drake on Jan 22, 2013 23:06:06 GMT -6
Here is an idea (Some balancing may be necessary) Feel free to use it if you like it.
Spirit Summoner (Druid Archetype)
A Spirit Summoner Druid sacrifices their ability to Shapeshift in order to summon a powerful Nature Spirit.
Nature Bond A Spirit Summoner must select a Domain instead of an Animal Companion. This changes the Nature Bond class ability.
Summon Spirit Starting at 4th Level as a standard action a Spirit Summoner may Summon a Spirit Companion that takes a form corresponding to the list available for the Summon Natures Ally 1 spell. Unlike a normal summoning however, the spirit sticks around for 1 hour per level of the Druid, or until slain. Additionally, the spirit gains the Special Abilities of a Druid's Animal Companion of a Druid of the same level. (Only the abilities listed in the "Special" Column. Bonuses to Ability Scores are only selected once for the Spirit, not for each form. It also has a base Intelligence of 3 regardless of Form. (This does not effect it's ability to use special abilities of the form assumed.)
A Spirit Summoner may Summon their Spirit Companion an additional time for every 2 levels after 4th. Additionally, the list they may use to select the form of their Spirit Companion also increases by 1 level for every 2 levels after 4th until level 20 when they can use the Summon Nature's Ally 9 list. They may only ever have one Spirit Companion summoned at a time but may use an additional use to change it's current form. Any form with an ability that has a limited number of uses per day can only be used that number of times per day regardless of how many times the Spirit Companion assumes that form in a day.
Starting at level 13, the Spirit Companion does not disappear unless banished. When slain it becomes a non-corporal wisp like spirit that cannot attack. Any attacks that would hit a non-corporal creature banish the spirit when in this form. A banished spirit may be re-summoned with a single use of the Summon Spirit ability. The Spirit Summoner may banish their own Spirit companion at any time as a standard action.
At level 20 a Spirit Summoner may re-summon their Spirit Companion or change it's form an unlimited number of times per day.
This Replaces the Wild Shape and Thousand Faces class abilities.
|
|