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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 14:09:16 GMT -6
Why? Only Shadow thrives on secrecy. The others have much more to gain by remaining open.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 13, 2013 14:14:11 GMT -6
Our guild will not thrive on secrecy. I think secrets among guild members should not exist, or all Rings should be in control of their information in the same way. If 2 Rings are allowed to hold back information and all the others are open then the ones with secrets will inevitably hold more power, because knowledge is power.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 14:19:07 GMT -6
In general, I think having our covert ops section less visible is a good thing. I think Karter was specifically intending to cover things like missions, espionage, etc - compartmentalization of information is the best way to protect it. Our cloak and dagger group is infinitely more useful if they're not standing in the open under a spotlight.
I'm not sure I understand the justification for cloaking forums in Light, for example. Coming from real-world IO, knowledge is absolutely power - but careful compartmentalization of knowledge is very important. You might have clearance to access to that knowledge, but you probably don't have need to know. I imagine everything in Shadow will be known by their Guardian, the Watcher, and Sentinel, but I can't imagine any reason (except for specific need-to-know) for other groups to know about a particular mission. It's likely that The Inner Circle will eventually appoint a version of Internal Affairs investigations to keep Shadow above board, but there's no reason for a lot of their info to be public.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 14:20:00 GMT -6
Also, to quote Goodkind, "I fear no secret of a person I trust, and he has no need to fear mine. It is part of being friends."
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 13, 2013 14:55:04 GMT -6
I can see Earth wanting a hidden discussion about where to find the best minerals so spies don't find them first. I can see Gold wanting a hidden discussion about the affairs of state and secrets of other nations. I can see Steel wanting a hidden discussion about our military tactics. I can see Light, Crystal and Wood wanting hidden discussions about magical advancements. I can see Iron wanting a hidden discussion about creating certain powerful items, especially siege, and powerful weaponry. If one group is allowed to keep hidden discussions, then all should, with the oversight of Sentinel. Your quote about fearing secrets can be turned on its head. If you don't trust your friends with your secrets, are they really trustworthy friends? Should they be Wardens if they aren't allowed to see our secrets? For me its an either/or issue. We either have completely open talking among all Wardens, or all the Rings should be allowed to have separate and secret discussions, not just one or two Rings.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 15:08:30 GMT -6
But what makes it an either/or issue? And where is anyone saying that other boards couldn't have hidden subforums?
As to the quote, absolutely. Do you tell everyone you meet everything you're privy to? Trust has to flow both ways for it to mean anything. I don't tell my significant other everything I'm privy to, because she doesn't always have a need to know. I use my discretion and intellect to decide what I should and should not divulge or make public, and I fully expect Shadow and other rings to do the same.
I guess I'm not seeing where your issue with Shadow having a private subforum comes into play. Can you please explain, for my sake?
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 13, 2013 15:17:06 GMT -6
My problem is not the Ring of Shadow having a hidden forum, my problem would be if only the Ring of Shadow had a hidden forum. If one does then I think every Ring should be able to have them. Whether they use them or not would be up to their discretion.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 15:18:53 GMT -6
Oh, I don't think that was ever at issue. I'm sorry if I made it sound that way, that is entirely my own mistake!
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 13, 2013 15:20:55 GMT -6
Why? Only Shadow thrives on secrecy. The others have much more to gain by remaining open. This is why I thought it was an issue. I'm sorry if I misread what you posted.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 15:25:51 GMT -6
At the time, I was responding to the idea I perceived you to be forwarding that if Shadow closes itself off then so should everyone else. Not that the can't, but I think the others being mostly open (while Shadow remains mostly closed) makes sense and is desirable. Sometimes, I don't take the time to explain my positions as clearly as I should.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 13, 2013 15:42:08 GMT -6
The original post by Karter said that the entire Ring of Shadow board would be closed off to anyone who is not a member of the Ring of Shadow. I believe this is a bad idea. There should be a section of the Ring of Shadow folder that is open for people to converse with our Shadows. But whatever part they think is right should be closed. I also think that the other Rings should have at least 1 invisible folder within their sections. Hrod, you said "Shadow remains mostly closed" Karter said, "Make invisible the Ring of Shadow folder". The word mostly is very important to me. Them going completely dark like Karter mentioned scares me. Leaving part of their board open for discussions with those that aren't Shadow is important for guild unity. Maybe that's not what Karter meant, I don't know.
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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 13, 2013 17:06:58 GMT -6
Shadow like all the Rings should have an open and a non-open folder. There will always be communication that people from other Rings just don't need to know about. If we are gathering information on another Company or conducting a mission against another group that absolutely needs to not be on a public forum. I would assume this will be the same situation with all the other Rings, Gold may be conducting sensitive diplomatic negotiations that Wood just doesn't need to know about until the negotiations are complete.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 13, 2013 17:32:01 GMT -6
I also imagine we'll close the boards, somehow, in a time of war - if you're not a Keeper or Warden, you don't get to see anything except for the embassy, trade posting, or mission-offering boards for outsiders. If possible, of course.
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Post by Erian El'ranelen on Jan 14, 2013 12:51:51 GMT -6
I've already suggested a sub-forum for the Ring of Gold regarding diplomatic efforts. There might be multiple (one per visiting org) and these might need public and private discussions. We want our visting envoys to feel they can share private things as needed, and we'll probably want a step up from there where visting envoys can all gather to discuss in private.
So, for instance, Aeternum has their own private thread, then we have a private thread for all envoys, then we have the public thread.
I can see Shadow operating similarly. I'd suggest that Inner Circle members would see almost all threads in all Rings, while the Watcher and Sentinel absolutely see all threads.
This might also get into some technical needs, depending on how well our current forum software can handle this sort of need.
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Post by WxCougar on Jan 14, 2013 13:08:49 GMT -6
I also agree some rings will need private as well as public boards. I agree also with what Erian said.
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