Warden Status. How should you attain it?

[Calhoun Farstrider]

The topic has been brought up and I wasn't 100% clear on how the majority were thinking it should be decided but I do like the annual voting of new Wardens. Although, Hrod wif you were to be nominated for the annual vote and you belong to two rings. I don't see why a Ring could go without a Warden for the annual vote.

If no Keepers are showing exceptional and outstanding talent or guild involvement in the Ring of Gold then none get nominated.

BUT these are just my thoughts. I am by no means the final arbiter. Please continue to discuss this below and let me know if it's ok to delete the off topic posts in the "What is Your Ring?" Thread.

[Dario Tashavan]

I'm not sure annual is the right period. I was thinking either monthly, or every other month. Of course, you'd still be limited to obtaining sponsorship.

Maybe a limit to how often you can sponsor someone? Say only one every 3-4 months, depending on induction interval?

[Calhoun Farstrider]

I'm not real big on monthly but I do like bi-monthly or quarterly Warden elections (every 3 months).

If we do limit sponsorship, maybe if you sponsored somebody last quarter, then you can't sponsor somebody the following quarter.

[Dario Tashavan]

Another alternative would be for the Inner Circle to vote how many slots are available in a given induction cycle. Maybe in the interests of trying to keep the number of wardens per ring rougly equal?

[Calhoun Farstrider]

I like that a lot. My concern is having more Wardens than Keepers. Obviously, initially that can't be helped because all founding members are Wardens automatically but, As this ball gets rolling Wardens should be the minority.

What about Warden slots being available and determined by the number of Keepers in the ring. Roughly 1 out of every 6 or so Keepers are allowed to be Wardens. Ring of Wood = 12 Keepers (2 Warden slots available). Ring of Light = 18 Keepers (3 Warden slots available.)

Only problem with this is the fact that we have Wardens spanning several Rings.

[Gintigael Gemweaver]

Having it quarterly (every 3rd month) makes sense, and then cycling the votes so that you don't have all circles voting at the same time.
January = Gold, Steel, Crystal
February = Wood, Light, Earth
March = Iron, Shadow, Sentinel
Guardian = every 6 months

or some such?

[Dario Tashavan]

Jan 4, 2013 12:48:41 GMT -6 Calhoun Farstrider said:

I like that a lot. My concern is having more Wardens than Keepers. Obviously, initially that can't be helped because all founding members are Wardens automatically but, As this ball gets rolling Wardens should be the minority.

Is this actually something we want though? Remember that as we have things planned right now, Keepers have no vote in anything, and can't even run for an elected office. Do we want players to feel they have no chance at all for advancement or input because slots are full?

Jan 4, 2013 12:48:41 GMT -6 Calhoun Farstrider said:

Only problem with this is the fact that we have Wardens spanning several Rings.

I have thoughts on this that I'm still working to articulate properly before I put them out. In short, I'm not sure that being a warden of multiple rings is the best solution.

[Gintigael Gemweaver]

Warden Status
We could have either Warden choose one Ring that they are mostly associated with, or we could have someone traverse between a handful of Rings. Gintigael is connected to the Rings of Iron, Crystal, and possibly Gold and Earth, but if I had to choose one I would choose Iron.

Keeper Status
What are the benefits of being a beginning member of the guild? If we don't want to give Keepers voting rights, what rights do they have that a normal citizen of our settlement wouldn't have?

[Nymerias]

Is it possible to be Warden in one ring but a Keeper in another?

Maybe we should change the idea of Keepers not having any vote? Maybe only Wardens of a ring may vote on things that are unique to their ring. Yet to vote on something that affects the charted company as a whole one would need only be a Keeper of any ring. If we wanted a non-voting level having an initiate level would be nice.

So say for example Taela is a Warden of Wood, she would be able to vote on training, hierarchy, policies, etc. of things uniquely concerning the Ring of Wood. Say she becomes really impressed by Leo and wants to strive to be more like him, she could become a Keeper of Light. She is still a voting member of Wood, but would not have a vote in the policies unique to the Ring of Light. Before she becomes a Keeper of Light she would have to spend time in their training program, during which her title would only be Initiate of Light.

Warden=Officer
Keeper=Member
Initiate= Just joined and everyone is testing you out time

There certainly could be some votes that affect the entirety of the guild that perhaps only people who have obtained Warden status at least 1 ring could vote on.

[Gintigael Gemweaver]

"Maybe only Wardens of a ring may vote on things that are unique to their ring. Yet to vote on something that affects the charted company as a whole one would need only be a Keeper of any ring."

To do this with the current "organization" system of the game we would have to create the Chartered Company of the Keepers of the Ring. Then we would have to create all eight Rings as chartered companies also because I don't think that they will have the voting system in game so intricate. Unless we don't want to do votes in game and do them exclusively on this messageboard. In essence we would have the Settlement, the Chartered Company of the Keepers of the Ring and the Chartered Companies of Iron, Steel, Wood, Shadow... so someone would be part of at least 3 groups right off the bat, and may be as many as 10 if they are in all of the Chartered Companies.

[Nymerias]

That sounds painfully complicated. I think the voting on internal ring matters by wardens could easily be done informally on the messageboards. Is there a way to create threads visible to people with certain titles? That way we could still be one chartered company of the circle in game. I like that mostly for the overall appearance of being one unified organization. I feel all of the splitting up and small internal stuff need only be done on our personal forums here.

It is also hard to decide how to organize when the mechanics for how the levels of settlements will be able to organize aren't even made yet. I think whatever we are deciding now is our own internal system for the boards and we will implement it in-game the best we can.

[WxCougar]

I agree that it sounds rather complicated to split out the various rings and we should keep it as one Chartered Company. I also agree that if Wardens are limited, that Keepers should have a right to vote on group matters since it will affect them - be it just one circle or group wide. Or would we be better served to have it that the Wardens serve as the "representations" when it comes to decisions? For example, a matter comes up that needs a vote. All Keepers/Wardens in that affected circle(s) discuss the matter within their own circle so that the Wardens know the feel for the group and then the Wardens themselves make the final decision in a vote? Will that vote then go to the Guardian of the circle(s) involved for the final say or would they participate in the Warden vote?

As to when a new Warden can be nominated, I like the idea of quarterly. It keeps it so one doesn't have to wait a full year, but it isn't too often either.

[Lorhayden]

I think that each member should be able to be a Keeper in any Ring they want however they may only have the title and responsibilities of Warden in 1. I also think that their should only be a fixed number of Warden positions per Ring with each Warden being of equal stature to every other Warden regardless of Ring size. This would mean no Ring could ever be forced into a position without a consensus vote by all of the Wardens not just one or two large Rings who had more members.

[Hroderich Gottfrei]

The intention initially - and that is subject to the review of everyone here - is that Keepers are the newer members - You're known as a Keeper from the day you join. To everyone outside the Circle, we're just collectively known as Keepers (unless each individual wants to make a big stink about I'M WARDEN BOB DANGIT). The Wardenship is a recognition of dedication to and responsibility within the guild. It doesn't just get handed out, but it's not terribly hard to obtain either - if you're active and participating in Guild politics and events, you're very likely to be a good candidate for a Warden. Having this two-tiered approach allows us to prevent ourselves from being outvoted by a surge of new Keepers while maintaining a low barrier of entry into the Guild. Essentially, merit trumps all. If you're a good, helpful, hard working and active (in and out of character) member, you're probably not going to be turned down. If you're rude, barely on, or antagonistic, you can expect not to get voted in. The randomization of the selection board means you can't just figure out whose rear to kiss to gain power, you have to actively be a decent human being (at least out of character).

The problems with quarterly vs monthly/bi-monthly are these (imo):
1] If I fail selection (especially if it's Ring dependent) then I have to wait 3-12 months for another shot.
2] If I start in January as a Keeper of Gold and Gold Wardenships aren't up until October, that's 9+ months of being stuck as a Keeper without the option to advance.
3] This will make selection a huuuuuuge process - if we have 5 Wardens/month, that's 20/quarter that the board will have to vet all at once.

I think doing a monthly selection board for all sponsored potential Wardens makes more sense.

Also, as far as guild power goes:

Sentinel is an arbiter and goal setter - he or she is the head of the organization and can decide which direction to steer us. How well we cleave to that vision is based on the Guardians and the feelings of the guild at large.
Watcher - back up Sentinel, sort of Appeals court judge for questions and issues that arise. The Watcher handles a lot of administrative stuff for the Sentinel and is good for Wardens/Guardians to lean on for help and authority.
Guardians - They do for their Ring what the Sentinel does for the Circle as a whole - provide guidance, direction, and administrative work to keep things flowing smoothly.
Wardens - Get a DIRECT vote in Circle business (ie, do we raise taxes? Do we go to war?) and provide input to everything and anything. Warden is a position that denotes experience and trustworthiness.
Keepers - newer or less active members who may add input/criticism at any time and will participate in open polls (such as on the forums) to get a feel for how things are proceeding, but do NOT receive a direct vote. Typically, a Keeper has been a member for 3-6 months, more or less depending on activity and reputation.
Initiates - new members who have not been confirmed (however we decide to do that).

SIDE THOUGHT: What if we required you to have Reputation X before you could be considered for Wardenship/Keeper status. For example (numbers are arbitrary) 25 Reputation to become a Keeper, 75 to become a Warden.

[Calhoun Farstrider]

I like the Initiate idea but the whole point of our guild is an 'Open Door' policy. Everybody is allowed in but your on a # day period where we decide whether you're right for the guild or not?