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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 6, 2013 10:34:01 GMT -6
I believe we currently have 3 dedicated Wardens of Shadow, its probably time that we started discussing what this ring is going to be about, our structure etc.
"Ring of Shadow: As aid and conflict are a part of the Circle, so are stealth, surprise, and the use of less than lawful means to achieve ends. The Purview of the Ring of Shadow is Stealth; Keepers of Shadow act as the equivalent of covert operations for The Circle. Keepers of Shadow are called upon to enact retribution against single targets, to disrupt supply lines of forces hostile to Life, and to reclaim objects that have been taken from their rightful owners among other things."
I also think that we might want to start reaching out to other organizations that have a covert section as well as some of the Companies on the lower end of the alignment scale.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 6, 2013 10:51:11 GMT -6
Not a member of shadow, so take this for what you will, but I think Shadow, and to a lesser degree, Steel, are going to have to work the hardest to make sure that there's no breach of the circle's guiding principle "Do not initiate aggression". It'll be a fine line to walk, and something you'll probably want to start considering at the groundwork level.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 11:06:06 GMT -6
I second Dario's comment. These are terms I think we need to watch out for that I have seen posted on various threads (usually with the Ring of Shadow) 'espionage' and 'assassination'. Both of these need to be done very carefully or our main precept of the guild is moot. Assassination especially should be saved for only special circumstances.
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Post by Hroderich Gottfrei on Jan 6, 2013 11:16:04 GMT -6
The act of spying itself is not initiation - but blowing up their granary would be. Assassinating a tyrant who is paying bandits to come raid our lands is not aggression, but whacking a neighboring Consul because we want to make them a softer target for an ally is.
Non-Aggression means we never start the fight - but once it's engaged, we're not bound to rules of engagement that hinder or hurt our chances of victory. In character at least (RL I'm more hesitant about the gray morality of this), Hroderich is of the opinion that it's the people he's responsible to that matter - our NPC villagers and non-combat Keepers. He'll burn enemy farms and blow up their infrastructure and massacre their crafters if those things are contributing to the war effort against us (barring a countermanding order from above... probably).
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 11:19:59 GMT -6
What about preemptive strikes? Must an enemy attack us for it to be aggression, or is their posturing and taking resources from our land (without attacking) enough for us to call their actions aggression and attack them?
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Post by Nymerias on Jan 6, 2013 11:23:44 GMT -6
If they are taking resources from our land, and someone has asked them to stop, and they don't, I would say they just started the aggression on us.
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 6, 2013 11:27:58 GMT -6
I agree with Nymerias. If there's not a peaceful way to solve the problem, then it's time to start getting serious.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 11:29:37 GMT -6
In the minor infraction example of extracting resources from our land (not theft from our stores or attacking anyone) would we attack to kill or stop attacking when they run off?
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 11:30:46 GMT -6
Also, this is turning into an aggression question, not a Shadow question, so maybe we should have a post in the Guild discussion?
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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 6, 2013 11:31:50 GMT -6
Assassin, when played right, are probably one of the least aggressive of people.
(1) They don't want to be known so they don't advertise the fact that killing is their business, and business is good.
(2) Assassins are hired to go out and do a job, usually by another member of the Circle, and hired to do it to stop aggression or cut the head of a snake. I think of the assassins in the Ring of Shadow as people who deal with problems before they get to big.
(3) Espionage and Assassination are both done in the furtherance of Circle overall goals.
(40 Shadow is in general used after hostilities have been declared, either openly so we are at war or clandestinely we are hostile but not openly at war with another group.
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 6, 2013 11:32:08 GMT -6
Warnings first. Action later.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 11:52:00 GMT -6
Wonderful clarification, thank you Lor
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 6, 2013 11:54:27 GMT -6
 That's just my assumption, considering we're a group that's all about "Thou Shalt Not Initiate Aggression." Of course we'll defend ourselves, but I don't see slaughtering someone over a mistake as a totally legitimate option. Repeated offenses (with proper warnings and diplomatic actions taken first), however, should be met with the proper responses. |
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Post by Nymerias on Jan 6, 2013 11:57:37 GMT -6
Would fulfilling bounties be apart of this circle? Like if someone caused me to want to put up a bounty would I limit it to just our guild and Shadow would be most likely to respond?
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 6, 2013 12:05:57 GMT -6
I was about to say why bounties should be a Circle-wide thing, but it seemed to me that Shadow needs something to be in charge of. Assassinations will be few and far between, as will destructive espionage. I think moderate spying and gathering together of Bounty Hunting parties should be good things for Shadow to be in charge of.
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