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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 7, 2013 9:15:26 GMT -6
So, since we've got six people so far expressing an interest in Crystal (and apparently all the other rings are doing it, so it must be cool), I thought it might be a good time to start discussing a structure for the Ring of Crystal. I was going to insert a terrible chemistry joke here, but will pass on it out of sense of good taste.
My first thought was to go with subdivisions based on origin. So you'd have Study (Wizard, Magus, Bard), Innate (Sorcerer, Oracle), and Patron (Witch, Inquisitor, Paladin, Cleric). Not sure where Druid or Ranger would fit, probably either under Study, or their own "Natural" category. But, on reflection, these distinctions felt arbitrary, and didn't seem to contribute much organizationally.
My second thought was to break things up into schools of magic (Abjuration, Conjuration, Transmutation...) in a sort of Collegia Magica approach, but this generates 8 subdivisions, 9 if you include one for generalists, and seemed like it was dividing up a bit too much to be productive.
The idea that I'm currently mulling over is to break it up by area of skill, so you'd have Research, Enchanting, and War Magic. I'd expect there to be a fair bit of overlap in these, and ultimately I'm not even sure subdivision is the proper route for the ring.
So far the only things even semi-confirmed are having a guardian, and possibly a librarian, as it's been mentioned a couple times that Crystal will be the primary keepers of Circle archives on lore and the like.
So, any ideas or thoughts for organizing the Ring of Crystal?
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 7, 2013 11:16:59 GMT -6
I like the idea of having a Research/Library section, Battle/Adventuring section that works closely with the other Adventuring Rings and an Enchanting section that works closely with the Ring of Iron. I like the idea of allowing druids, clerics and others to join if they want, but they seem to fit better in other Rings. Plus, because of the library aspect, not all members of the Ring of Crystal have to be magic users. Someone who wants to focus on research or non-magical book making (if that's possible) would be a member or Crystal.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 7, 2013 11:27:51 GMT -6
Well, the original purview of the Ring of Crystal was arcane magic. I was thinking about expanding it a bit to anyone who wanted to learn about magic, since PFO is classless. Then it kind of bled over into lorekeeping as well.
Edit to add: The reason I didn't want to exclude the divine casters is that there are several gods of magic in Pathfinder. Nethys and Yuelral are both explicitly gods of arcane magic, Sivanah is a goddess of illusion magic, and Alseta and Korada both have magic in their purviews.
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Post by hark on Jan 11, 2013 12:52:11 GMT -6
I think we probably should go with traditional Master, Apprentice structure, or something Academic. Also, I personally hate the schools of Magic so I'm pretty opposed to using it for organization outside of a Library.
If we want something more complex than that we could give people different rank within multiple areas based on their competence in that area.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 11, 2013 13:34:49 GMT -6
Master/Apprentice structure doesn't really work with large groups.
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Post by hark on Jan 11, 2013 13:44:54 GMT -6
It does, though it becomes quite exclusive pretty quickly. Alternatively a master can maintain many apprentices. The apprentices come back to the master for training, but otherwise remain independent. A Master may in turn be apprentice to an even higher master.
Or you could use classes from which any given master selects an apprentice.
Or you could just establish a rank system based on level of accomplishment in a given field. Influence in the Circle based on rank. A person skilled in multiple fields could possess multiple ranks.
I just think that a magic focused group could probably use a slight more eccentric rank structure.
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Post by Nymerias on Jan 11, 2013 13:46:29 GMT -6
If you take it in the literal sense of one master one apprentice, then you're right it does not work in large groups. It can also be taken as two levels of accomplishment. You can be known as a Master Wizard or an Apprentice Wizard. In that way it isn't a strictly mentor/mentee situation but a simple ranking.
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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 11, 2013 17:48:04 GMT -6
How a person is known within their own Ring is up to the Ring. Keepers could be Apprentices, Wardens Adepts, Guardian Master.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 11, 2013 18:13:55 GMT -6
I thought the consensus of the day was that Keepers did not belong to rings? Also, the Ring of Crystal will not be limited to just mages, something to keep in mind.
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Post by hark on Jan 11, 2013 18:40:18 GMT -6
No Keepers are part of a Circle.
But this whole organization thing is kind of hard to do since we don't know the roles Magic will play in the game.
I do however sub-ranks within the rank of Keeper will be important. One of our jobs is educational, but ethics should play a role in what we teach. Students should have to prove themselves trust worthy before we teach them dangerous spells. We can't have someone behaving just long enough to learn a highly dangerous spell from us then run off blasting everyone with it giving us a bad name. As such players that prove their reliably and trustworthiness should have higher ranks to demonstrate that they are advanced enough to learn more dangerous spells. We are after all a non-aggressive organization, blasty spells are a lesser priority.
I guess for structure, each Warden could take Keepers as Students and use their best judgement for what to teach the students.
Not sure what non-magical Crystal Keepers could do beyond catalog Lore, and if Enchanting is non-magical some enchanting. A good lore keeper could probably also teach magical tactics and theory too I guess.
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Post by Rufus on Jan 15, 2013 6:24:06 GMT -6
Hmm, I lean towards organisational titles rather than hierarchical ones. From the early days of Ultima Online onwards in any MMO you have too many chiefs and not enough indians. We would end up with 50 masters, 20 adepts and one apprentice The detail will need to wait until we understand more about the structure of magic in the game but a number of named areas that people select from (and can move between if their interests change) would seem to me to be logical. It may also be useful to have some sort of mentor or leader for each area - Head Librarian, Chief Researcher, Most Inscrutible Magister or whatever. I would see these roles as more organisational than controlling. They would be the people that organise events, moderate discussions, act as a point of liaison for the chapter or whatever we call them. Bah, this board doesn't like my English spelling - it keeps trying to turn me into an American... Ruf
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 15, 2013 8:21:31 GMT -6
It sounds like your thoughts mirror my own, Rufus. It seems to me that organization by function is the logical extension of the Circle/Rings structure we have elsewhere.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 15, 2013 10:30:36 GMT -6
Like Rufus said, there don't need to be very many Organizational heads of the guild... the ones he spouted were a good start before we know more about the mechanics of the game. If people want to use titles we could create them based on the focus of that particular character. War Mage, Mage of Flames, Sorcerer of Waves...
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Post by hark on Jan 15, 2013 12:15:36 GMT -6
We're mages, we probably should just make up our own personal titles and have them approved for use by the Wardens. We could also make up some titles and establish conditions by which they are earned.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 15, 2013 12:21:45 GMT -6
I support the idea of titles, but not in relation to organizational structure.
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