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Post by WxCougar on Jan 16, 2013 13:11:05 GMT -6
I wouldn't actually want to hide the affiliation with those in the circle. It's more those that are outside the circle coming in as guests and viewing the page.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 16, 2013 13:30:30 GMT -6
Right, a Warden/Keeper of Shadow would just be careful to stay off the publicly visible boards when it comes to that. Everywhere else, no need to hide. Well, there was an idea tossed out that the only people who would know their "true" Ring would be them, the Guardian of Shadow, and the Guardian of their cover Ring.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 16, 2013 13:36:50 GMT -6
I wouldn't actually want to hide the affiliation with those in the circle. It's more those that are outside the circle coming in as guests and viewing the page. This could be handled as simply as not displaying Ring in your leftbar, but letting people put it in their signature if they want. We don't need to start masking and saying they're members of another ring.
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Post by WxCougar on Jan 16, 2013 13:43:11 GMT -6
I can certainly understand your concern Dario. The ideas I tossed around were just thoughts. I wouldn't technically by lying saying I was a Keeper of Gold as that is what I am too. But I also understand the concern of wanting to do covert operations but anyone passing by here could tell that I'm not where I should be in game.
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Post by Lorhayden on Jan 16, 2013 14:08:35 GMT -6
Dario people will be members of multiple rings. If I am a Keeper of Gold or Keeper of Steel and thats what I display I'm not lying to anyone. I'm just not putting out there that i'm also a Warden of Shadow.
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Post by Dario Tashavan on Jan 16, 2013 14:39:56 GMT -6
Whether you want to call it a lie of omission or just deception, you're misleading the people who are supposed to be your allies. That's a recipe for mistrust and resentment.
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Post by doomcrow on Jan 16, 2013 15:42:17 GMT -6
What happens then when someone walks up to a Keeper or another Warden and starts asking questions about so-and-so, and they let slip that he's in the circle or in the ring of shadow (because they know they're in that Ring as a keeper or warden) when that person is a spy? Blown.
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Post by hark on Jan 16, 2013 16:07:02 GMT -6
I don't know that a person even needs to have their role in another Ring be fake. A Keeper of Shadows could easily be on a real trade mission as a Keeper of Gold, but also using the cover role of Keeper of Gold as a cover for spying on enemy finances.
BY really Dario's concerns are the reason I'm surprised that we even have a Ring of Shadows.
Personally, I hate the idea of Alt spies, but if I'm willing to accept spies and covert agents in my group I need to be able to accept that I don't know who they are. It is simply impossible for them to do their job effectively if I know.
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Post by WxCougar on Jan 16, 2013 16:19:32 GMT -6
I would like to hope that all Shadow will be needing to do is helping gather generic information to help out other Rings and the Circle as a whole. But at least the group is there in case the time comes up that we do have to spy/etc on our enemies after all other methods have been exhausted.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 16, 2013 16:24:35 GMT -6
The Ring of Shadows is going to have to do a lot to make sure that they don't lose the trust of the rest of the guild if they are thought to be keeping secrets. I'm not sure how this will happen. Just putting a thought out there as the subject says.
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Post by WxCougar on Jan 16, 2013 16:29:56 GMT -6
Gintigael Gemweaver. I do agree that we will face that. And would advocate the Sentinel, Watcher and Guardian of Shadow at the very least be privy to what is going on. It may not solve everything, but it will help I hope.
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Post by Leonidas Wahrheit on Jan 16, 2013 17:12:07 GMT -6
Like all of our Rings, there definitely has to be a system of Checks and Balances. I'm perfectly ok with agents taking on another Ring as a cover, so long as they:
1. Actively participate in that Ring's business (like any good agent would) 2. Inform both the Guardian of Shadow and the Guardian of the Ring they have joined of their true nature. Informing the Sentinel would be wise as well. 3. Remain wholly under the authority of the Guardian of Shadow. 4. Should any mission ordered by the Guardian of Shadow take place while under the cover of that particular Ring, the Guardian of that Ring and the Sentinel must know and BOTH must approve.
Like Gintigael mentioned about how this ring is going to have to make sure they "don't lose the trust of the rest of the guild", we absolutely must make sure that our members of this secretive ring remain accountable for their actions. This is not to say that I predict any sort of corruption or internal sabotage will happen (please don't think I'm implying that), but it doesn't hurt to be safe.
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Post by hark on Jan 16, 2013 17:28:28 GMT -6
I would strongly recommend that Ring of Shadows have a very strict policy on what is required for joining as a covert agent. The should also have very strict information control regulation, and methods by which those with the authority to do so can check in on their operations and ensure that the Ring or Individuals aren't abusing their power.
Personally, not that my opinion carries much weight as I'm not even a Keeper of Shadow, I think that actual Covert Members of the Ring of Shadows should be recruited from the members of the other Rings that have already displayed their skill and Loyalty. People will trust the Ring of Shadows more if they know that the Covert Members are people they already know they can trust.
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Post by WxCougar on Jan 16, 2013 17:31:31 GMT -6
Even if you aren't Ring of Shadow, I know I at least appreciate hearing other people's concerns and suggestions! It helps to cover things any one of us may not think of.
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Post by Gintigael Gemweaver on Jan 16, 2013 17:33:33 GMT -6
With what Leo has laid down, that sounds good to me.
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